CAROLYNN BAINAFRORI BOOKS, BRIGHTONFor this week’s Bookshop Spotlight, we caught up with bookseller, entrepreneur, speaker and event manager, Carolynn Bain, of Brighton’s afrori books.
And that connection is so important because bookselling can be quite isolating. It’s even more so for me as a Black woman running a shop that does what we do – we’re currently the only shop in the country doing it. It can feel like, “Where are my peers?” But then, when people say, "Hey, I don’t do what you do, I don’t fully understand what you do, but here’s something that might help," it makes all the difference. You don’t feel like you’re on your own. |
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JR: So, for those who haven't been to Afrori before, can you give us a bit of an introduction and tell us where we can find you?
CB: Oh, that one's easy. We are so easy to find. We're about four minutes from Brighton Train Station, on the corner of Queens Road and North Road. We have a ginormous sign, so you really can't miss us. We often see people walking down Queens Road on their way to the beach. They pause at the crossing, look left, see our sign, and we watch them nudge each other. And we think, "They're going to come in now or on their way back from the beach." So yeah, we're pretty easy to find. We're part of an iconic building in Brighton called the Brighton Home Centre, and we've taken over what used to be their café.
JR: You were set up before you moved into that building, weren't you?
CB: Yes, that's a whole other story!
JR: Well, I definitely want to hear more about your background and how you got into bookselling, but let’s stay focused on the shop a bit longer. Can you give us an idea of the size of the store?
CB: Oh, that’s really hard! I think we’ve got about 900 titles. It’s weird with books, you never know what’s a lot or a little. But yeah, about 900 titles. The shop is quite spacious because one of the things that’s really important to us is to create a space where people can come and be. We definitely could cram in a lot more bookshelves, but we don’t. So yes, the shop is quite open.
It was actually designed by an author who’s also an interior architect, a friend of mine. What makes it unusual is that all the bookshelves are white, which is intentional. We wanted the colours to pop, and they do in those white frames. There are three large sofas, four armchairs, and two tables with chairs around them – which makes it sound enormous, but it’s really not that big.
The shelves in the middle are low-level, designed intentionally at elbow height so people can lean on them. We wanted to encourage conversation across the books. We don’t play what I call "lift jazz." The music in the shop really reflects Black culture. For example, on Fridays, we play disco, and on Saturdays, we play Afrobeats. Even those details make a difference, and we have customers who follow our playlists on streaming sites. It’s definitely a different space from other bookshops.
JR: And that’s important. Everyone needs to do their own thing. You’ve got your audience in mind and the books in mind. Showcasing them well is amazing, isn’t it? When you don’t cram the place full of stuff, give them the space to breathe, and your customers will find them. That’s really important.
CB: Yeah, exactly. Another thing we do, which is a bit strange, is we don’t make it easy to find books in our shop. That’s intentional because we want people to ask us. We want to have conversations. Most of the time, people come in thinking they know what they want or the range and depth of Black authors, and almost inevitably, they don’t.
JR: Yeah, absolutely. That goes back to why you started, really. When you go into the majority of bookshops in the UK, it can still be hard to find BAME authors and to find that kind of diversity. I think people are working harder at it now, but the breadth of what’s out there compared to what most shops stock would shock a lot of people. So managing that stock is obviously important. Keeping an eye on new titles and important ones to always have in stock – is that your responsibility, or do you share that with the staff?
CB: So, our staff includes my daughter, who works part-time, and my other daughter, who does a lot of our admin and social media. She also works part-time. We also have some volunteers. In terms of finding stock, a lot of what we do, particularly at the beginning, came from customers. Customers would say, "Have you heard of this? Do you know about that?" And that would lead us down a rabbit hole. You find one book, read what that author reads, and discover so much more. You make a lot of great discoveries like that and that’s definitely how we started and still influences us quite a lot.
Olivia is great at finding things and following those trails. Sometimes we’ll just be talking, and I’ll say, "You know what we haven’t got?" and Olivia will find something interesting. We also work a bit with the Black Writers Guild, and their monthly newsletter alone introduces us to lots of authors.
And I’d say in the last year, just through hard work and building good relationships, a couple of our reps have gotten much better. For example, I’ve become friends with someone at Penguin who loves the shop and is really good about recommending titles. This year, we had someone from Macmillan come and do a day in the bookshop.
JR: Oh, nice. That’s always fun.
CB: Yeah, and so, you know, you build a relationship, and then she gets what we do. That gets passed down to the rep, and the rep does a better job for us. Some reps are better than others, though. There’s still a rep, four years later, where I’m saying, "Stop sending me 400 books, of which only one is relevant!" And then, like lots of other people, we spend time on Google, follow Bookstagrammers, and keep up with TikTokers.
CB: Oh, that one's easy. We are so easy to find. We're about four minutes from Brighton Train Station, on the corner of Queens Road and North Road. We have a ginormous sign, so you really can't miss us. We often see people walking down Queens Road on their way to the beach. They pause at the crossing, look left, see our sign, and we watch them nudge each other. And we think, "They're going to come in now or on their way back from the beach." So yeah, we're pretty easy to find. We're part of an iconic building in Brighton called the Brighton Home Centre, and we've taken over what used to be their café.
JR: You were set up before you moved into that building, weren't you?
CB: Yes, that's a whole other story!
JR: Well, I definitely want to hear more about your background and how you got into bookselling, but let’s stay focused on the shop a bit longer. Can you give us an idea of the size of the store?
CB: Oh, that’s really hard! I think we’ve got about 900 titles. It’s weird with books, you never know what’s a lot or a little. But yeah, about 900 titles. The shop is quite spacious because one of the things that’s really important to us is to create a space where people can come and be. We definitely could cram in a lot more bookshelves, but we don’t. So yes, the shop is quite open.
It was actually designed by an author who’s also an interior architect, a friend of mine. What makes it unusual is that all the bookshelves are white, which is intentional. We wanted the colours to pop, and they do in those white frames. There are three large sofas, four armchairs, and two tables with chairs around them – which makes it sound enormous, but it’s really not that big.
The shelves in the middle are low-level, designed intentionally at elbow height so people can lean on them. We wanted to encourage conversation across the books. We don’t play what I call "lift jazz." The music in the shop really reflects Black culture. For example, on Fridays, we play disco, and on Saturdays, we play Afrobeats. Even those details make a difference, and we have customers who follow our playlists on streaming sites. It’s definitely a different space from other bookshops.
JR: And that’s important. Everyone needs to do their own thing. You’ve got your audience in mind and the books in mind. Showcasing them well is amazing, isn’t it? When you don’t cram the place full of stuff, give them the space to breathe, and your customers will find them. That’s really important.
CB: Yeah, exactly. Another thing we do, which is a bit strange, is we don’t make it easy to find books in our shop. That’s intentional because we want people to ask us. We want to have conversations. Most of the time, people come in thinking they know what they want or the range and depth of Black authors, and almost inevitably, they don’t.
JR: Yeah, absolutely. That goes back to why you started, really. When you go into the majority of bookshops in the UK, it can still be hard to find BAME authors and to find that kind of diversity. I think people are working harder at it now, but the breadth of what’s out there compared to what most shops stock would shock a lot of people. So managing that stock is obviously important. Keeping an eye on new titles and important ones to always have in stock – is that your responsibility, or do you share that with the staff?
CB: So, our staff includes my daughter, who works part-time, and my other daughter, who does a lot of our admin and social media. She also works part-time. We also have some volunteers. In terms of finding stock, a lot of what we do, particularly at the beginning, came from customers. Customers would say, "Have you heard of this? Do you know about that?" And that would lead us down a rabbit hole. You find one book, read what that author reads, and discover so much more. You make a lot of great discoveries like that and that’s definitely how we started and still influences us quite a lot.
Olivia is great at finding things and following those trails. Sometimes we’ll just be talking, and I’ll say, "You know what we haven’t got?" and Olivia will find something interesting. We also work a bit with the Black Writers Guild, and their monthly newsletter alone introduces us to lots of authors.
And I’d say in the last year, just through hard work and building good relationships, a couple of our reps have gotten much better. For example, I’ve become friends with someone at Penguin who loves the shop and is really good about recommending titles. This year, we had someone from Macmillan come and do a day in the bookshop.
JR: Oh, nice. That’s always fun.
CB: Yeah, and so, you know, you build a relationship, and then she gets what we do. That gets passed down to the rep, and the rep does a better job for us. Some reps are better than others, though. There’s still a rep, four years later, where I’m saying, "Stop sending me 400 books, of which only one is relevant!" And then, like lots of other people, we spend time on Google, follow Bookstagrammers, and keep up with TikTokers.
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JR: It sounds like it’s still quite an organic process, which is great. And actually, I think what’s really important is that you’re still willing to listen to your customers and let that feed into what you stock.
CB: Yeah, it’s massive for us. We always talk about the bookshop as belonging to the customers. Whenever we refer to it, we say "your bookshop." And when we talk to customers, we call it their bookshop. So, we can’t just say that without behaving like it’s true, right? JR: Yeah, but the important thing is, it’s also your business, and you can do what you want right? CB: Oh, yeah! I love that. Every now and then, I remind people, "Actually, I can do what I want!" JR: Exactly! You can pick and choose. I mean, 900 books – to some people that sounds like a lot, but really, that’s a well-curated small list. And the quality of your list is everything. CB: Yeah, and the thing is, the online shop and the physical shop almost run like two separate businesses. And so the online shop allows us to be more selective with what we carry in the physical shop. We have over 4,000 titles online, so we can be more niche in Brighton. We serve Brighton, Sussex, and even parts of South London. But Brighton is still a niche market. Some books just won’t sell in-store, but they do really well online because there’s a bigger market for them elsewhere. They very much are separate entities. |
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JR: Was a bricks-and-mortar shop always something you had in mind? Was it always an ambition, since you started online?
CB: No, I had no intention of having a physical shop. I was very happy running the bookshop from a corner in my loft, going for walks, and having coffee with neighbours. I was living my best life, as they say! But then a charity approached us and offered space for a shop. At first, I said no, absolutely not. But they were convincing, and my family encouraged me to do it. In retrospect, it was the right decision. I’m an extrovert, and I probably would’ve shrivelled up and died if I stayed in that loft. When the shop opened, I realised how much I needed it. But yeah, it was never part of the plan. I thought the bookshop was just a fun hobby, I had no expectation that it would take off the way it did.
JR: And you’ve spoken publicly about why you started the shop. That message is still clear. A quick Google search or a look at your Instagram shows all the events, community work, and workshops you do. Having a physical space really allows for all that now, doesn’t it?
CB: Yeah, totally. If I could go back, I wouldn’t do it any differently. Having a physical shop is the only way we could serve the community and make the impact we’re making. There’s no way it would’ve been possible otherwise.
We went in with a three-point mission: support Black authors, create diverse bookshelves, and be a voice against injustice. But the shop added another layer – which is to create a safe space for Black people and their allies. And, you know, this summer really proved how essential that space is.
JR: Absolutely. It’s been a terrifying time for a lot of people. The more I speak to booksellers, especially those with a strong community focus or a really great, tight-knit customer base, the more I hear that, no matter how rural or urban they are, these shops become safe havens. They’re like community centres where people come in just for a conversation, aren’t they?
CB: Yeah, and for us, moving into this new building solidified that. At first, when we were approached, I was like, "No, I’m not doing this again. I’ve had a disaster before." But being in a building that’s all about community makes what we do easier. It’s a space that’s dedicated to community, even though they weren’t necessarily reaching the same people we are.
And I agree, safe spaces look different all around the country, but they’re essential everywhere. Every community, whether it’s a village of 10 houses or a massive city, needs these spaces.
JR: Yeah, obviously, the kind of violence and fear we’ve seen in the last few months is primarily gravitating to these built-up urban areas, isn’t it? And with the kind of space you’ve created, unfortunately, it kind of puts a target on your back too, doesn’t it? I mean, a lot of bookshops have had to close because of this.
CB: I mean, we’re on the police’s watchlist now. We have a permanent - at the moment permanently - check-in twice, sometimes three times a week.
JR: Really? Wow.
CB: Yeah, the police come around to make sure we’re okay, check if we’ve had any phone calls or issues with behaviour around the shop. To be honest, even before this summer, from the moment we opened, we’ve been a target. When we do interviews, especially for online organisations or publications, we ask them to turn off the comments because they’re just so horrendous. And unfortunately, I can’t stop myself from reading them.
JR: Yeah, well, that’s fair enough. Even though you don’t want to, you end up seeing what kind of hate is out there, and it’s pretty scary. It’s a shame that you have to build resilience against it, but I guess it becomes part of everyday life.
On a different note, Brighton has a really good reputation for independent bookshops – City Books, Kemptown Bookshop, Book Nook, Goldsboro – and of course, Waterstones. But you have such a great range of bookshops now. What’s it like sharing the city with other booksellers? Obviously, you have a unique focus, but are there enough customers for all of you?
CB: Oh, definitely. What we do is so unique. And booksellers are a funny bunch, really. I’ve worked in different industries, and I always laugh about it, especially as we’re heading to the Booksellers Association Conference soon. Booksellers just don’t seem to understand what the word ‘competition’ means. They’re always helping each other out. Of course, there are one or two exceptions, but when you meet a bookseller who’s competitive or not kind, it feels like an alien walked into the room.
We’ve built strong relationships with booksellers across the country. Like when we’d only been open a few months, a bookseller from Edinburgh spent a whole morning with me, offering advice and tips. Or a couple from Norwich, who were on holiday in Brighton, came in and my computer wasn’t working. She went to get coffee while he spent the morning fixing my computer and sorting out my software. Booksellers are like family.
But it’s also a weird space to be in. You know, in the Booksellers Association, there are six Black women – well, five Black women and one Asian woman – and everyone else is white. So, there’s still a lot of ignorance that happens. But the sense of community among booksellers is amazing. When you say "bookshops in Brighton," my brain immediately thinks about the whole country because it’s such a close-knit family, rather than just focusing on my local area.
JR: Yeah, I think I fall into that mindset too. When I talk to my bookseller friends, they’re spread out all over the place. And you make such good friends in the process because everyone’s so generous with their time. And you know, I’m not really into the Facebook groups and all that kind of stuff – they can be a bit soul-crushing when everyone’s just sharing problems – but there are groups where people just genuinely look out for each other and offer real solutions.
CB: No, I had no intention of having a physical shop. I was very happy running the bookshop from a corner in my loft, going for walks, and having coffee with neighbours. I was living my best life, as they say! But then a charity approached us and offered space for a shop. At first, I said no, absolutely not. But they were convincing, and my family encouraged me to do it. In retrospect, it was the right decision. I’m an extrovert, and I probably would’ve shrivelled up and died if I stayed in that loft. When the shop opened, I realised how much I needed it. But yeah, it was never part of the plan. I thought the bookshop was just a fun hobby, I had no expectation that it would take off the way it did.
JR: And you’ve spoken publicly about why you started the shop. That message is still clear. A quick Google search or a look at your Instagram shows all the events, community work, and workshops you do. Having a physical space really allows for all that now, doesn’t it?
CB: Yeah, totally. If I could go back, I wouldn’t do it any differently. Having a physical shop is the only way we could serve the community and make the impact we’re making. There’s no way it would’ve been possible otherwise.
We went in with a three-point mission: support Black authors, create diverse bookshelves, and be a voice against injustice. But the shop added another layer – which is to create a safe space for Black people and their allies. And, you know, this summer really proved how essential that space is.
JR: Absolutely. It’s been a terrifying time for a lot of people. The more I speak to booksellers, especially those with a strong community focus or a really great, tight-knit customer base, the more I hear that, no matter how rural or urban they are, these shops become safe havens. They’re like community centres where people come in just for a conversation, aren’t they?
CB: Yeah, and for us, moving into this new building solidified that. At first, when we were approached, I was like, "No, I’m not doing this again. I’ve had a disaster before." But being in a building that’s all about community makes what we do easier. It’s a space that’s dedicated to community, even though they weren’t necessarily reaching the same people we are.
And I agree, safe spaces look different all around the country, but they’re essential everywhere. Every community, whether it’s a village of 10 houses or a massive city, needs these spaces.
JR: Yeah, obviously, the kind of violence and fear we’ve seen in the last few months is primarily gravitating to these built-up urban areas, isn’t it? And with the kind of space you’ve created, unfortunately, it kind of puts a target on your back too, doesn’t it? I mean, a lot of bookshops have had to close because of this.
CB: I mean, we’re on the police’s watchlist now. We have a permanent - at the moment permanently - check-in twice, sometimes three times a week.
JR: Really? Wow.
CB: Yeah, the police come around to make sure we’re okay, check if we’ve had any phone calls or issues with behaviour around the shop. To be honest, even before this summer, from the moment we opened, we’ve been a target. When we do interviews, especially for online organisations or publications, we ask them to turn off the comments because they’re just so horrendous. And unfortunately, I can’t stop myself from reading them.
JR: Yeah, well, that’s fair enough. Even though you don’t want to, you end up seeing what kind of hate is out there, and it’s pretty scary. It’s a shame that you have to build resilience against it, but I guess it becomes part of everyday life.
On a different note, Brighton has a really good reputation for independent bookshops – City Books, Kemptown Bookshop, Book Nook, Goldsboro – and of course, Waterstones. But you have such a great range of bookshops now. What’s it like sharing the city with other booksellers? Obviously, you have a unique focus, but are there enough customers for all of you?
CB: Oh, definitely. What we do is so unique. And booksellers are a funny bunch, really. I’ve worked in different industries, and I always laugh about it, especially as we’re heading to the Booksellers Association Conference soon. Booksellers just don’t seem to understand what the word ‘competition’ means. They’re always helping each other out. Of course, there are one or two exceptions, but when you meet a bookseller who’s competitive or not kind, it feels like an alien walked into the room.
We’ve built strong relationships with booksellers across the country. Like when we’d only been open a few months, a bookseller from Edinburgh spent a whole morning with me, offering advice and tips. Or a couple from Norwich, who were on holiday in Brighton, came in and my computer wasn’t working. She went to get coffee while he spent the morning fixing my computer and sorting out my software. Booksellers are like family.
But it’s also a weird space to be in. You know, in the Booksellers Association, there are six Black women – well, five Black women and one Asian woman – and everyone else is white. So, there’s still a lot of ignorance that happens. But the sense of community among booksellers is amazing. When you say "bookshops in Brighton," my brain immediately thinks about the whole country because it’s such a close-knit family, rather than just focusing on my local area.
JR: Yeah, I think I fall into that mindset too. When I talk to my bookseller friends, they’re spread out all over the place. And you make such good friends in the process because everyone’s so generous with their time. And you know, I’m not really into the Facebook groups and all that kind of stuff – they can be a bit soul-crushing when everyone’s just sharing problems – but there are groups where people just genuinely look out for each other and offer real solutions.
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CB: Exactly. There’s not a single day where I couldn’t pick up the phone and call any number of people and ask for advice.
JR: That’s incredible. CB: Yeah, even for things that seem really small or petty. You don’t feel like an idiot. I can ask Meera in Brixton, Fleur in Kent, or Mairi in Edinburgh something, and I don’t feel embarrassed. JR: Right, and it’s often about small, day-to-day stuff. Like, "Has Gardners frozen for everyone else?" or "There’s no paperwork again, how do I sort this out?" Those kinds of issues pop up all the time. CB: Yes! And that connection is so important because bookselling can be quite isolating. It’s even more so for me as a Black woman running a shop that does what we do – we’re currently the only shop in the country doing it. It can feel like, “Where are my peers?” But then, when people say, "Hey, I don’t do what you do, I don’t fully understand what you do, but here’s something that might help," it makes all the difference. You don’t feel like you’re on your own. All credit to the Booksellers Association – they’ve done a great job supporting us and making attempts to address the lack of diversity within the organisation. We definitely feel loved and supported. JR: Yeah, and I mean, you've got the wider community to consider, but it's also about serving the local community, isn’t it? Any help we can get. It’s great that they’re rallying for us at government, printing out resources, and managing more than most people think they’re doing. |
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CB: Yeah.
JR: But it also comes down to the little things - like the events you do. Having support when you need it, access to authors and publishers, and the ability to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, look, we’re looking for an author for the festival. Do you have anyone in mind?" That kind of support makes everything just a little easier. And not just as a bookshop, but as an independent business owner, that kind of help really counts, especially since being an independent can feel isolating on its own, don’t you think?
CB: Exactly.
JR: I’d like to talk about your events, actually. I know you do both online and in-person. You’ve got book clubs, and outreach with schools, and you’ve hosted big names like Roxane Gay, Megan Pillow, and Diane Abbott. You’ve got Evie Muir this week, too. Are you able to do these events in-store, or do you use other venues?
CB: No, so we’re really fortunate to be able to do a lot of them in-store. For example, Evie will be in-store because we expect around 45 people, which we can comfortably accommodate. But for bigger events, like Diane Abbott or Lenny Henry coming up, we use the auditorium in the building we’re in, the Brighthelm Centre, which seats 240 people.
JR: Wow, OK, that’s amazing!
CB: Yeah, it's incredible. The bookshop has a large window at the back that looks directly into the Brighthelm Centre, so if we have an event with more than 50-60 people, we move it there. It’s perfect because it keeps everything connected to the bookshop.
JR: That’s great. It makes it easier for people to buy books and for the event to feel connected to your shop. When events happen in other venues, there’s often a disconnect. People don’t always realise it’s the bookshop that brought it all together.
CB: Exactly. We’re probably luckier than most bookshops in that regard because of what we do. Since our focus is so unique, authors often mention us on stage during events, even ones we didn’t organise. But still, it doesn’t lead to massive spikes in our social media followers or sales after the event. So keeping events as close to the bookshop as is humanly possible is a huge win for us. It’s massive.
JR: And you’re doing more than just talks. You also run anti-racism training for adults, anti-racist clubs in schools, hair workshops, and Women of Colour yoga sessions. How do you manage the balance between hosting events, running the shop, and all the consulting and other work you do? That’s a lot to juggle, a lot on your plate.
CB: Are you asking if I’m exhausted?
JR: Haha! In a roundabout way, yeah!
CB: HA! I would say I’ve always had a large capacity for work. I wouldn’t call myself a workaholic—though someone recently told me that no workaholic thinks they are. But I don’t think I am! My family is really good at keeping me in check and all of that really helps. I’m very protective of my time off. For example, I don’t work on Sundays, and everyone who knows me is aware of that. I only started doing that about three years ago, after I found myself feeling overwhelmed. Telling people about it helps because they hold you accountable. Even people I barely know will say, "You’re not working on Sunday, are you?"
All of that really helps. And I’m very fortunate that I also have a business coach who loves what we’re doing and helps me out for free. It’s a community-driven support system, and having a team of volunteers helps a lot. But I’m still learning how to balance everything. Sometimes my daughters will send me stroppy messages, asking what I’m thinking when I book certain events.
Like the other day, I suggested to Olivia the other day that we do a school event with Lenny Henry in the afternoon and another one with a different author in the morning—two completely separate events in one day. It made perfect sense to me, but she gave me this look of pure disgust and she didn’t even take a breath and said, "Absolutely not. That’s never happening!"
So, yes, I do get ahead of myself sometimes! But the key for me is that I’m passionate about everything I do and that passion gives me energy. For example, we run hair education workshops, and I’ve literally watched kids transform before my eyes.
In the first workshop, I saw children walk in with their heads down, looking at their feet, completely lacking in confidence. But two hours later, they left as completely different people - proud, confident. It’s moments like that which make it all worth it, even if I’m a bit knackered. It’s worth it.
JR: Yeah, and that kind of empowerment, I mean, it's hard to quantify, right? It’s not something you can just put on a spreadsheet. You don't want to apologise for being busy because you know the impact it’s having. But at the end of the year, when you’re knackered and looking at the numbers, it all makes sense - that’s why you’re tired.
CB: Exactly. And it’s hard because, as you said, it’s difficult to quantify. It’s hard to explain why this work is so important and the impact it has. That makes it nearly impossible to get funding for these initiatives.
JR: Of course. Yeah.
CB: So, we rely massively on the generosity of our customers, especially through our "pay it forward" scheme. It’s phenomenal, it’s through the roof. People buying books for others who can’t afford them. We’ve also been lucky to have partnerships with businesses that support us because they believe in what we do. For example, at our next hair education workshop, we’ve got the woman who designed Lush’s afro and textured hair range running the session, and Lush is covering her costs.
JR: But it also comes down to the little things - like the events you do. Having support when you need it, access to authors and publishers, and the ability to pick up the phone and say, "Hey, look, we’re looking for an author for the festival. Do you have anyone in mind?" That kind of support makes everything just a little easier. And not just as a bookshop, but as an independent business owner, that kind of help really counts, especially since being an independent can feel isolating on its own, don’t you think?
CB: Exactly.
JR: I’d like to talk about your events, actually. I know you do both online and in-person. You’ve got book clubs, and outreach with schools, and you’ve hosted big names like Roxane Gay, Megan Pillow, and Diane Abbott. You’ve got Evie Muir this week, too. Are you able to do these events in-store, or do you use other venues?
CB: No, so we’re really fortunate to be able to do a lot of them in-store. For example, Evie will be in-store because we expect around 45 people, which we can comfortably accommodate. But for bigger events, like Diane Abbott or Lenny Henry coming up, we use the auditorium in the building we’re in, the Brighthelm Centre, which seats 240 people.
JR: Wow, OK, that’s amazing!
CB: Yeah, it's incredible. The bookshop has a large window at the back that looks directly into the Brighthelm Centre, so if we have an event with more than 50-60 people, we move it there. It’s perfect because it keeps everything connected to the bookshop.
JR: That’s great. It makes it easier for people to buy books and for the event to feel connected to your shop. When events happen in other venues, there’s often a disconnect. People don’t always realise it’s the bookshop that brought it all together.
CB: Exactly. We’re probably luckier than most bookshops in that regard because of what we do. Since our focus is so unique, authors often mention us on stage during events, even ones we didn’t organise. But still, it doesn’t lead to massive spikes in our social media followers or sales after the event. So keeping events as close to the bookshop as is humanly possible is a huge win for us. It’s massive.
JR: And you’re doing more than just talks. You also run anti-racism training for adults, anti-racist clubs in schools, hair workshops, and Women of Colour yoga sessions. How do you manage the balance between hosting events, running the shop, and all the consulting and other work you do? That’s a lot to juggle, a lot on your plate.
CB: Are you asking if I’m exhausted?
JR: Haha! In a roundabout way, yeah!
CB: HA! I would say I’ve always had a large capacity for work. I wouldn’t call myself a workaholic—though someone recently told me that no workaholic thinks they are. But I don’t think I am! My family is really good at keeping me in check and all of that really helps. I’m very protective of my time off. For example, I don’t work on Sundays, and everyone who knows me is aware of that. I only started doing that about three years ago, after I found myself feeling overwhelmed. Telling people about it helps because they hold you accountable. Even people I barely know will say, "You’re not working on Sunday, are you?"
All of that really helps. And I’m very fortunate that I also have a business coach who loves what we’re doing and helps me out for free. It’s a community-driven support system, and having a team of volunteers helps a lot. But I’m still learning how to balance everything. Sometimes my daughters will send me stroppy messages, asking what I’m thinking when I book certain events.
Like the other day, I suggested to Olivia the other day that we do a school event with Lenny Henry in the afternoon and another one with a different author in the morning—two completely separate events in one day. It made perfect sense to me, but she gave me this look of pure disgust and she didn’t even take a breath and said, "Absolutely not. That’s never happening!"
So, yes, I do get ahead of myself sometimes! But the key for me is that I’m passionate about everything I do and that passion gives me energy. For example, we run hair education workshops, and I’ve literally watched kids transform before my eyes.
In the first workshop, I saw children walk in with their heads down, looking at their feet, completely lacking in confidence. But two hours later, they left as completely different people - proud, confident. It’s moments like that which make it all worth it, even if I’m a bit knackered. It’s worth it.
JR: Yeah, and that kind of empowerment, I mean, it's hard to quantify, right? It’s not something you can just put on a spreadsheet. You don't want to apologise for being busy because you know the impact it’s having. But at the end of the year, when you’re knackered and looking at the numbers, it all makes sense - that’s why you’re tired.
CB: Exactly. And it’s hard because, as you said, it’s difficult to quantify. It’s hard to explain why this work is so important and the impact it has. That makes it nearly impossible to get funding for these initiatives.
JR: Of course. Yeah.
CB: So, we rely massively on the generosity of our customers, especially through our "pay it forward" scheme. It’s phenomenal, it’s through the roof. People buying books for others who can’t afford them. We’ve also been lucky to have partnerships with businesses that support us because they believe in what we do. For example, at our next hair education workshop, we’ve got the woman who designed Lush’s afro and textured hair range running the session, and Lush is covering her costs.
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JR: That’s incredible.
CB: It really is. It’s because we’ve built great relationships with the two Lush stores here in Brighton. They love what we’re doing and told me, “We’ll make this happen for you, Carolynn.” That’s the thing about passion, right? When you’re passionate about something you do, it resonates with people, and they want to support it. JR: Absolutely, and you want that passion to filter through to your customers, not just the regulars but also the ones who might not come in every day. It’s not always about the people you’ve already won over. And I guess that’s part of why bookselling sometimes gets lumped in with the retail sector when it’s actually so much more than that. CB: Exactly. We’re not just selling products, right? JR: It’s about connection and community. Like in the arts. If we were having this conversation in the arts sector, people would immediately understand the emotional and social outcomes we’re aiming for. It’s not just about what’s going into the till - though of course, that’s important too. But when the desired outcome is something deeper, it’s harder for people to grasp. And look at the recognition you’ve received. You were named British Bookseller of the Year and Brighton Business of the Year. It’s clear that your hard work and passion are being acknowledged. CB: Yeah, it’s been an incredible journey. JR: But let’s go back to the beginning. What drew you to books in the first place? CB: Ah, that’s a funny question. I mean, it’s books! Who doesn’t love books? I grew up very poor—sometimes I forget if the right word is “abject” or “absolute,” but it was tough. My childhood story is like one of those horrible books you read, I guess. I didn’t own a book until I was 17, but I loved them. Going to the library was like a treasure trove for me. Even in school, I’d spend hours in the library. Apparently, I think I was reading by the time I was just over three years old. Books were always a part of my life, books have always been the thing. |
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And as I got older, I wanted my kids to love books too, which they did. But when they were younger, there was nothing in the UK market that represented them - no books where they could see themselves. We’d end up importing books from around the world just to find something authentic that reflected who they were.
There’s quite a famous book called Amazing Grace, but it’s actually not great for a Black child. If you dig into the author’s background, it becomes even worse. We just couldn’t find many books that felt like they genuinely represented my children. There were maybe one or two exceptions, but nothing substantial.
And then 2020 happened. I was working in event management, and the industry vanished overnight. Like many people, I was left thinking, "What do I really want to do now?"
And then George Floyd was murdered, and I was so angry and so frustrated. I went on a march with my kids, I’m a bit of a socialist, and found myself thinking, "Why am I still marching for this?" I’d been going on anti-racist marches since I was nine. I cried that day because it felt like we hadn’t made any progress.
That’s when the idea for the bookshop came back to me. I thought, "Maybe I could put together an online shop with about 100 books." It was supposed to be just a small thing for friends and family. I didn’t expect to make any money. I thought that at best, I thought I’d break even and cover the website costs myself. But after 10 days, someone from Scotland ordered a book, and I was like, "How did they even find us?" It just took off from there.
JR: That’s a great story. You didn’t set out to make your millions because let’s be honest, no one goes into bookselling to make millions. But it came from a place of resilience and empowerment, and it’s doing the right thing for your kids. And showing by example.
CB: Absolutely. I’ve always believed that books change the world. For me, growing up in terrible circumstances, books were what changed me. I am who I am today because of books.
No one will ever convince me that books don’t have the power to change the world. I even joke at parties sometimes - people will ask what I do, and I’ll say, "I’m changing the world." I say it to be a little bit irreverent, you know, but also because I genuinely believe that.
JR: After running the shop for a few years, have you seen any change in the wider book landscape? Are more shops or publishers making a change? As a Black-owned business and as someone who struggled to find those books, do you feel like you’ve felt a shift in the last few years?
CB: Honestly, I don’t think there’s been much of a shift in publishing. That’s my honest answer. They’re making noises but I don’t think the actual changes are happening. Some publishers are making a difference, but the reality is, until publishing itself becomes more diverse, we’re not going to see real impact. We still hear stories from Black authors being sat in meetings with agents and publishers and being told their books aren’t “Black enough,” or sometimes “too Black.”
JR: Really? Wow.
CB: Yeah. Conversations like, “Why is the criminal white and not Black?” These are discussions that belong in the 1970s, but they’re still happening. In bookselling, there’s some shift, but even now, every time I attend the Booksellers Association (BA) conference, people will still come up to me and say things like, "I would sell Black books, but where my bookshop is there are only white people." There’s still this overriding idea that books by Black authors are only for Black people. It’s obviously, with anyone with half a brain, utter nonsense. I tell them, that 70% of my customers are white, and I live in a city that’s 85% white. It’s like, “Yeah, I understand your customer base!”
It’s slow progress, painfully slow. When you’re a victim of racism, it always feels like change isn’t coming fast enough. Why are we still having conversations that should’ve ended decades ago?
There’s quite a famous book called Amazing Grace, but it’s actually not great for a Black child. If you dig into the author’s background, it becomes even worse. We just couldn’t find many books that felt like they genuinely represented my children. There were maybe one or two exceptions, but nothing substantial.
And then 2020 happened. I was working in event management, and the industry vanished overnight. Like many people, I was left thinking, "What do I really want to do now?"
And then George Floyd was murdered, and I was so angry and so frustrated. I went on a march with my kids, I’m a bit of a socialist, and found myself thinking, "Why am I still marching for this?" I’d been going on anti-racist marches since I was nine. I cried that day because it felt like we hadn’t made any progress.
That’s when the idea for the bookshop came back to me. I thought, "Maybe I could put together an online shop with about 100 books." It was supposed to be just a small thing for friends and family. I didn’t expect to make any money. I thought that at best, I thought I’d break even and cover the website costs myself. But after 10 days, someone from Scotland ordered a book, and I was like, "How did they even find us?" It just took off from there.
JR: That’s a great story. You didn’t set out to make your millions because let’s be honest, no one goes into bookselling to make millions. But it came from a place of resilience and empowerment, and it’s doing the right thing for your kids. And showing by example.
CB: Absolutely. I’ve always believed that books change the world. For me, growing up in terrible circumstances, books were what changed me. I am who I am today because of books.
No one will ever convince me that books don’t have the power to change the world. I even joke at parties sometimes - people will ask what I do, and I’ll say, "I’m changing the world." I say it to be a little bit irreverent, you know, but also because I genuinely believe that.
JR: After running the shop for a few years, have you seen any change in the wider book landscape? Are more shops or publishers making a change? As a Black-owned business and as someone who struggled to find those books, do you feel like you’ve felt a shift in the last few years?
CB: Honestly, I don’t think there’s been much of a shift in publishing. That’s my honest answer. They’re making noises but I don’t think the actual changes are happening. Some publishers are making a difference, but the reality is, until publishing itself becomes more diverse, we’re not going to see real impact. We still hear stories from Black authors being sat in meetings with agents and publishers and being told their books aren’t “Black enough,” or sometimes “too Black.”
JR: Really? Wow.
CB: Yeah. Conversations like, “Why is the criminal white and not Black?” These are discussions that belong in the 1970s, but they’re still happening. In bookselling, there’s some shift, but even now, every time I attend the Booksellers Association (BA) conference, people will still come up to me and say things like, "I would sell Black books, but where my bookshop is there are only white people." There’s still this overriding idea that books by Black authors are only for Black people. It’s obviously, with anyone with half a brain, utter nonsense. I tell them, that 70% of my customers are white, and I live in a city that’s 85% white. It’s like, “Yeah, I understand your customer base!”
It’s slow progress, painfully slow. When you’re a victim of racism, it always feels like change isn’t coming fast enough. Why are we still having conversations that should’ve ended decades ago?
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JR: Absolutely. So, who do you see doing the best work? Who’s inspiring you these days? Any publishers or bookshops that stand out?
CB: That’s a good question. I think Penguin’s done some good work, especially with their Merky imprint. They didn’t just box everything into a “Black” category, which is crucial. But, at the same time, Penguin could do a lot more - because they’ve Penguin, you know. However, smaller publishers are often the ones leading the way because they have more flexibility to turn and move and twist. Publishers like Pluto Press and Turnaround Books come to mind - they’re doing impressive work. The Independent Alliance, which includes a lot of smaller presses, has also been putting out some really good stuff. JR: That makes sense. With Penguin’s size, they have the buying power to do more. CB: Big organisations like that have red tape and hoops to jump through for even the smallest changes. On the flip side, I really admire Ruth Wainwright at the Feminist Bookshop. She’s been an absolute powerhouse in supporting marginalised authors. Her space, her work - it's been incredible. I’m in awe of her. She was supposed to reopen after the summer, but she hasn’t yet. Everything’s crossed that she does because the way she honours authors and creates a safe space for them is just incredible. JR: Yeah, that’s so inspiring. And you look at what people like Ruth and you have done, and you think, "Why isn’t everyone doing this?" It’s not rocket science. And that’s not to belittle the work you’ve done, but it’s something that should be replicated everywhere. |
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CB: Exactly. I always say we’re the only shop in the country that does what we do, not as a boast, but as a rebuke. Why isn’t there another shop like ours? Recently, I saw there’s a new shop that only stocks books by South Asian authors [Shalimar Books], which is great. But for me, there should be ten more bookshops like us across the UK. If I had the capacity and finances, opening another shop up north would be my dream.
JR: Yeah, and every independent bookshop has its own speciality, its own focus, which is great. But there’s definitely space for more like yours.
CB: Absolutely.
JR: Right, let’s talk about books. What are you reading right now that you’re loving? And what’s doing really well in-store - any books you’re really championing this summer?
CB: Oh, I just finished reading In Memory of Us by Jacqueline Roy. It's funny because I categorise all my books into three categories: work, intentional, and accidental. In Memory of Us was an accidental pick. I couldn't find the book I was planning to read, picked this one up instead, and ended up loving it. As for work, I’m reading Diane Abbott’s book since I’ll be interviewing her in a couple of weeks. I’m not usually a fan of autobiographies, but this one caught my attention early on, and I’m enjoying it.
JR: Sounds like you’ve got a great mix going on! What about in the shop? What’s been selling really well?
CB: One of our best-selling books this year, which shocked all of us, is Black Women Always by Kevin Morosky. And by bestselling, I think we’ve just over or just under 200 copies, which is phenomenal for us.
JR: That’s amazing, isn’t it?
CB: And that’s without an event.
JR: Sure, without that spike. What do you think is drawing people to that one?
CB: Kevin really championed us with pre-sales and has a strong social media following. Still, it’s a mystery - other books by big names with similar followings haven’t hit those numbers. If I could figure out why, I’d bottle it up and apply it to every book we sell!
JR: It does look almost quite gifty, with that clean cover. And not too chunky.
CB: It’s pretty chunky! It’s pretty substantial, about 300 pages. Kevin is a photographer, and when he showed me the cover, I didn’t think it would sell because illustrated covers tend to do better. But he insisted, he told his publisher, “I’m the photographer and I’m going to put this on the cover”, and it paid off. Oh, I also just finished a YA fantasy called Tender Beast by Liselle Sambury, which was just stunning. The cover is beautiful, and the story is completely original. I'm recommending it everywhere. Another book I loved is No Small Thing by Orlaine McDonald. She’s an ex-social worker, and it’s her debut novel in her fifties. It’s really powerful. And then there’s Such a Time as This by Shani Akilah, which is a collection of short stories.
JR: I’ve seen it but haven’t picked it up yet. It came out over the summer, right?
CB: That’s right. I’m not a fan of short stories - I say that, I’ve never actually read a full book of short stories! But I decided I wasn’t a fan. And I read that and thought, “Oh, maybe I like short stories!”
JR: Yeah, I kind of reserve shorts for when I’m travelling, you know. If you can blast through one on the train or if you’re on a plain, or whatever. Quite often I’ll finish a book and it’s really annoying because you have to carry it around with you. But short stories are great because they’re just bite-sized and I really got into some great short stories during lockdown. I don’t know if it was my attention span. I think, with everything that was going on in the world I just couldn’t commit to a big chunky book.
CB: The thing about Such a Time as This that I loved about it is that it’s the only book I’ve read that talks candidly about Covid. And I interviewed Shani and we talked about this and she said to me that it was the only area of the book that she had to fight the publisher on. And that’s the fourth time I’ve heard an author tell me that and I find it really fascinating that publishers want to pretend that Covid didn’t happen.
JR: Yeah, Maybe it’s the fear of that, “Do people people want to relive that just yet?”
CB: I think they do! I think history has taught us that people don’t want you to blot out bits of history. I think that’s been really evident. So, yeah, I loved that. It’s not a book about death but it is a book about people being impacted and it’s a really brilliant piece. I really loved both of those!
JR: Yeah, and every independent bookshop has its own speciality, its own focus, which is great. But there’s definitely space for more like yours.
CB: Absolutely.
JR: Right, let’s talk about books. What are you reading right now that you’re loving? And what’s doing really well in-store - any books you’re really championing this summer?
CB: Oh, I just finished reading In Memory of Us by Jacqueline Roy. It's funny because I categorise all my books into three categories: work, intentional, and accidental. In Memory of Us was an accidental pick. I couldn't find the book I was planning to read, picked this one up instead, and ended up loving it. As for work, I’m reading Diane Abbott’s book since I’ll be interviewing her in a couple of weeks. I’m not usually a fan of autobiographies, but this one caught my attention early on, and I’m enjoying it.
JR: Sounds like you’ve got a great mix going on! What about in the shop? What’s been selling really well?
CB: One of our best-selling books this year, which shocked all of us, is Black Women Always by Kevin Morosky. And by bestselling, I think we’ve just over or just under 200 copies, which is phenomenal for us.
JR: That’s amazing, isn’t it?
CB: And that’s without an event.
JR: Sure, without that spike. What do you think is drawing people to that one?
CB: Kevin really championed us with pre-sales and has a strong social media following. Still, it’s a mystery - other books by big names with similar followings haven’t hit those numbers. If I could figure out why, I’d bottle it up and apply it to every book we sell!
JR: It does look almost quite gifty, with that clean cover. And not too chunky.
CB: It’s pretty chunky! It’s pretty substantial, about 300 pages. Kevin is a photographer, and when he showed me the cover, I didn’t think it would sell because illustrated covers tend to do better. But he insisted, he told his publisher, “I’m the photographer and I’m going to put this on the cover”, and it paid off. Oh, I also just finished a YA fantasy called Tender Beast by Liselle Sambury, which was just stunning. The cover is beautiful, and the story is completely original. I'm recommending it everywhere. Another book I loved is No Small Thing by Orlaine McDonald. She’s an ex-social worker, and it’s her debut novel in her fifties. It’s really powerful. And then there’s Such a Time as This by Shani Akilah, which is a collection of short stories.
JR: I’ve seen it but haven’t picked it up yet. It came out over the summer, right?
CB: That’s right. I’m not a fan of short stories - I say that, I’ve never actually read a full book of short stories! But I decided I wasn’t a fan. And I read that and thought, “Oh, maybe I like short stories!”
JR: Yeah, I kind of reserve shorts for when I’m travelling, you know. If you can blast through one on the train or if you’re on a plain, or whatever. Quite often I’ll finish a book and it’s really annoying because you have to carry it around with you. But short stories are great because they’re just bite-sized and I really got into some great short stories during lockdown. I don’t know if it was my attention span. I think, with everything that was going on in the world I just couldn’t commit to a big chunky book.
CB: The thing about Such a Time as This that I loved about it is that it’s the only book I’ve read that talks candidly about Covid. And I interviewed Shani and we talked about this and she said to me that it was the only area of the book that she had to fight the publisher on. And that’s the fourth time I’ve heard an author tell me that and I find it really fascinating that publishers want to pretend that Covid didn’t happen.
JR: Yeah, Maybe it’s the fear of that, “Do people people want to relive that just yet?”
CB: I think they do! I think history has taught us that people don’t want you to blot out bits of history. I think that’s been really evident. So, yeah, I loved that. It’s not a book about death but it is a book about people being impacted and it’s a really brilliant piece. I really loved both of those!
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Look out for some of their amazing author events coming soon, as well as workshops, book clubs, the Brighton Book Festival, and more! |
