NIC BOTTOMLEYMR B'S EMPORIUM OF READING DELIGHTS, BATHFor this week’s Bookshop Spotlight we met up with co-owner of Mr B’s, NIC BOTTOMLEY, to discuss their unique perspective on the industry.
|
JR: So, Nick, there's a lot I want to talk about. Obviously, I want to talk about the shop, I want to talk about the events and subscriptions, I also want to talk about your indie publishing. I want to talk about the kinds of things that you do on top of the general bookshop stuff, like all the time you put into the BA [Booksellers Association] and how you manage to find time to do it all. So, yeah, we'll touch on a little bit of everything if that's okay.
NB: Yeah, sure.
JR: But just to get started off, and I suppose get us straight in - for anyone who hasn't been to Mr. B's before, I was wondering if you could give us a little introduction about yourself and about the shop, where we can find you and what you're all about.
NB: Yeah, so, the shop is on John Street in Bath. It's right in the centre of Bath but on a side street parallel to Milsom Street which is one of the grandest shopping streets in Bath.
Mr B’s is a shop that celebrates reading for pleasure and conversations about books above all else. In my experience, even some of the great independent bookshops of the world don't always leap out and have conversations with their customers all the time. They do it through their recommendations and stuff but we put it above everything else. So, usually when you walk in the atmosphere of the place is defined by booksellers banging on about books customers telling us about books, and booksellers talking to one another. It's not one of those bookshops that is quiet and contemplative. There are corners you can find for that but it's a bit of a labyrinth of a shop. Ten rooms these days. It began just as three but we added a first floor after two years and then we added a sort of extra… This is going to sound completely… It's not like, but… an extra wing! Just geographically, it's like a wing.
After 12 years, it's now sort of 10 rooms, a few corridors. Very labyrinthine and lots of unusual books. It looks kind of unusual, it's not quirky - as an overused word - but it gets used quite a lot by people who visit the shop. You never quite know what you're going to encounter, I guess. In that, there's a bathtub that's made into a display. There's a wall on the staircase entirely wallpapered in Tintin comics and things like that, so there's a lot of character to it I think, as a space.
JR: And obviously, you've built up such an amazing reputation over the years, Nic. I mean, not just nationally, but internationally, too. I think Mr. B's is seen as an example of what a good bookshop can be. And I think that it goes to show how much hard work you've put into it and how committed the team are as well.
You've got an amazing cast of booksellers who've all come into their own. And in their own right, they speak quite openly about the bookshop and especially at book events. Whether it's regional meetings or the London Book Fair or whatever. And obviously, it's been shown by some of the accolades and awards you received. Indie Bookshop of the Year, is an obvious one. It sounds like an awful lot to manage.
But it started off with a relatively small team, right? It was yourself and your wife, Juliet, to begin with.
NB: Yeah. I mean, listen, the very beginning you've got to bear in mind we knew nothing about retail. I'd done three months on a deli counter in Morrison's. And that was it. That was our combined retail experience. So you have to bear in mind that at the beginning it was blind faith. We did do research, you know, we talked to a lot of booksellers, and you just referenced conferences and all the other things that happen in regional media.
It is by far the most collaborative industry. I've watched other people come into our industry, you know, briefly to talk at a conference or something, and be blown away by how collaborative it is. And I benefited enormously from that at the beginning, and then have tried to give back as we’ve gone on.
Yeah, at the beginning, though, it was just Juliet and I, and Juliet's brother Harvey. It was three of us. So, the early days were, yeah, it defines us. And then we added one member of staff after a year, and then a couple more after a second year. There are now 22 of us involved with the business. Looking back, I'm really proud of that. Really proud of how many people can make a living, you know, we all know that bookselling is famously not the easiest thing to make a living out of, and it certainly isn't, but at least we're making some kind of a living for 22 people. So I'm really proud of that. And it's all the kind things you said about those people being advocates for the bookshop, but also just advocates for the kind of vibe of the bookshop, I guess, in all they do.
That is, I think, the thing that has earned us our reputation and those nice awards and everything like that, it's… If you - as certainly my father-in-law, and my father and sometimes me when prompted by them - spend any time looking at Google reviews of our shop or TripAdvisor then it's always about the people. It's about the service and the people and we encourage the team to talk about books because that's kind of part of the DNA. And we've hired people who love books and who know how to talk to people about books, and everything else about bookselling. I don't know, you're a bookseller, so you maybe will disagree, but I think pretty much everything else about bookselling you can learn or you can learn the bits you want to learn and then someone else on the team will do the other bits. The key is just actually loving the thing you're selling so that it becomes the opposite of a sales pitch. If you're ever sales pitching, you're doing it because you genuinely think that book's going to be life-enhancing for either the person who's buying it or the gift, or solving their problems with a gift they need to buy, or whatever. I think it is all about the people. It’s the best way to get a reputation. And that was always the intention, to be very service-oriented.
I suppose if I'm being fair to myself we can take some credit for somehow creating that culture at the beginning and passing it on. But I do feel it's been organic. We wanted it to be based on excellent customer service and a passion for books, and we've kind of recruited consistently on that basis, but everything else is down to the people who work here.
JR: Yeah, I guess, when you're looking for staff, and you do interviews with people, quite often the most striking thing that comes across is when people have a passion for reading and a passion for books, or for bookshops. That always comes first.
I think being a reader is far more important than being a salesperson, you know, I think you can teach someone Batchline or Gardlink over time.
NB: Yeah.
JR: And I guess, this stereotype of the reclusive bookseller, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of them out there, but I think for the most part, those who are passionate about books, are more passionate about telling people about those books. You don't have to be a people person, you don't have to be a salesperson necessarily, but it always comes across that they just want to share these stories. And I think that's the most important thing.
NB: Yeah, sure.
JR: But just to get started off, and I suppose get us straight in - for anyone who hasn't been to Mr. B's before, I was wondering if you could give us a little introduction about yourself and about the shop, where we can find you and what you're all about.
NB: Yeah, so, the shop is on John Street in Bath. It's right in the centre of Bath but on a side street parallel to Milsom Street which is one of the grandest shopping streets in Bath.
Mr B’s is a shop that celebrates reading for pleasure and conversations about books above all else. In my experience, even some of the great independent bookshops of the world don't always leap out and have conversations with their customers all the time. They do it through their recommendations and stuff but we put it above everything else. So, usually when you walk in the atmosphere of the place is defined by booksellers banging on about books customers telling us about books, and booksellers talking to one another. It's not one of those bookshops that is quiet and contemplative. There are corners you can find for that but it's a bit of a labyrinth of a shop. Ten rooms these days. It began just as three but we added a first floor after two years and then we added a sort of extra… This is going to sound completely… It's not like, but… an extra wing! Just geographically, it's like a wing.
After 12 years, it's now sort of 10 rooms, a few corridors. Very labyrinthine and lots of unusual books. It looks kind of unusual, it's not quirky - as an overused word - but it gets used quite a lot by people who visit the shop. You never quite know what you're going to encounter, I guess. In that, there's a bathtub that's made into a display. There's a wall on the staircase entirely wallpapered in Tintin comics and things like that, so there's a lot of character to it I think, as a space.
JR: And obviously, you've built up such an amazing reputation over the years, Nic. I mean, not just nationally, but internationally, too. I think Mr. B's is seen as an example of what a good bookshop can be. And I think that it goes to show how much hard work you've put into it and how committed the team are as well.
You've got an amazing cast of booksellers who've all come into their own. And in their own right, they speak quite openly about the bookshop and especially at book events. Whether it's regional meetings or the London Book Fair or whatever. And obviously, it's been shown by some of the accolades and awards you received. Indie Bookshop of the Year, is an obvious one. It sounds like an awful lot to manage.
But it started off with a relatively small team, right? It was yourself and your wife, Juliet, to begin with.
NB: Yeah. I mean, listen, the very beginning you've got to bear in mind we knew nothing about retail. I'd done three months on a deli counter in Morrison's. And that was it. That was our combined retail experience. So you have to bear in mind that at the beginning it was blind faith. We did do research, you know, we talked to a lot of booksellers, and you just referenced conferences and all the other things that happen in regional media.
It is by far the most collaborative industry. I've watched other people come into our industry, you know, briefly to talk at a conference or something, and be blown away by how collaborative it is. And I benefited enormously from that at the beginning, and then have tried to give back as we’ve gone on.
Yeah, at the beginning, though, it was just Juliet and I, and Juliet's brother Harvey. It was three of us. So, the early days were, yeah, it defines us. And then we added one member of staff after a year, and then a couple more after a second year. There are now 22 of us involved with the business. Looking back, I'm really proud of that. Really proud of how many people can make a living, you know, we all know that bookselling is famously not the easiest thing to make a living out of, and it certainly isn't, but at least we're making some kind of a living for 22 people. So I'm really proud of that. And it's all the kind things you said about those people being advocates for the bookshop, but also just advocates for the kind of vibe of the bookshop, I guess, in all they do.
That is, I think, the thing that has earned us our reputation and those nice awards and everything like that, it's… If you - as certainly my father-in-law, and my father and sometimes me when prompted by them - spend any time looking at Google reviews of our shop or TripAdvisor then it's always about the people. It's about the service and the people and we encourage the team to talk about books because that's kind of part of the DNA. And we've hired people who love books and who know how to talk to people about books, and everything else about bookselling. I don't know, you're a bookseller, so you maybe will disagree, but I think pretty much everything else about bookselling you can learn or you can learn the bits you want to learn and then someone else on the team will do the other bits. The key is just actually loving the thing you're selling so that it becomes the opposite of a sales pitch. If you're ever sales pitching, you're doing it because you genuinely think that book's going to be life-enhancing for either the person who's buying it or the gift, or solving their problems with a gift they need to buy, or whatever. I think it is all about the people. It’s the best way to get a reputation. And that was always the intention, to be very service-oriented.
I suppose if I'm being fair to myself we can take some credit for somehow creating that culture at the beginning and passing it on. But I do feel it's been organic. We wanted it to be based on excellent customer service and a passion for books, and we've kind of recruited consistently on that basis, but everything else is down to the people who work here.
JR: Yeah, I guess, when you're looking for staff, and you do interviews with people, quite often the most striking thing that comes across is when people have a passion for reading and a passion for books, or for bookshops. That always comes first.
I think being a reader is far more important than being a salesperson, you know, I think you can teach someone Batchline or Gardlink over time.
NB: Yeah.
JR: And I guess, this stereotype of the reclusive bookseller, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of them out there, but I think for the most part, those who are passionate about books, are more passionate about telling people about those books. You don't have to be a people person, you don't have to be a salesperson necessarily, but it always comes across that they just want to share these stories. And I think that's the most important thing.
NB: You're dead right. I think the sharing thing is important. Because, say you're a reclusive bookseller. Of course, they could still be a great asset to an organisation. Maybe that person can still excel with written reviews in that kind of way. But if you're going to be a shopfloor bookseller, there's no point in having masses of passion burning inside you for a book, unless you can take that leap, and challenge yourself to learn how to share that with someone.
And that's the most valuable thing a bookseller can give to a customer, I think. Because we've got to be proud of what a bunch of knowledgeable geeks we all are. The customers love it. Just like, I don't know, maybe you've got a new hobby, or you've got something you're just getting into, and you go in, maybe you're buying a new coffee machine or something, and you go in and you talk to one of these people who knows everything about these coffee machines. And why this one is 10 pounds more than this, and what you're going to get from that, and what kind of beans this one's going to work with, everything. It's a joy to watch those people in full flow. You're far more likely to get suckered into buying something. JR: Oh, 100%. Yeah. NB: And it's not an intentional sales pitch quite often. I think people like that just can't help it. Especially when you go to bookseller socials, when people are all on the same page, no one's trying to sell anything to each other. JR: We're still just trying to share our favourite books. NB: And we're talking about it. And if one bookshop's got one where they think a book really deserves a wider audience, then they get really passionate about sharing it. I have a few WhatsApp groups with other bookshop owners, some of which sprang up over the pandemic. It was more of a shared support and pain thing. And you know, periodically, some of those WhatsApp groups don't get used very often nowadays, but when they do, it's probably because someone’s just discovered this book, and they're shouting about it to all their customers. |
And instead of sort of thinking, ‘Oh, I'm gonna be the only [one] selling this book!’, you know, they desperately want more and more booksellers to be doing the same thing around the country.
JR: Also a love of publishing and authors too. You don't want that [local] author to exist solely in Bath, you know, you want them to make a living.
NB: Yeah, yeah. You want good things for that writer. and good things for and that kind of crops that you know, and then sometimes, you know, there's a there is also a kind of if we were looking at it from a kind of business point of view, you do end up getting these moments when particular bookshops get associated with the word-of-mouth building up of an author, you know. I hold my hands up and say sometimes we've been attributed, I think unduly sometimes. Like being sold in a book by a sales rep from a publisher, because we're associated with the initial buzz about the first novel by that same author. And I'm a bit like, ‘I don't actually remember.’
I don't remember whether we were truly that influential. We definitely stocked it, definitely sold some, and we definitely liked it. But there is this mythology. And I assume that therefore happens with every bookshop. There's a slight mythologising but it's because people remember passionate moments and publishers notice it and customers notice it.
And it's one of the great joys of a bookshop being an early supporter of something that then goes on to have a great reputation because lots of readers love it.
JR: Yeah, absolutely.
NB: David Nichols is touring right now and we're going to be interviewing him on Saturday.
And I think One Day came out in paperback really close to when we opened the shop. So that obviously did very well from the outset. And it's just a great example of one way bookshops, and not taking so much credit for us because we were just at the very beginning, but loads and loads of bookshops were sort of helping spread that because the first readers who read it were really struck by that book. And obviously, it became a phenomenon. It sold millions, [it was] adapted, you know. But it began with lots of bookshops banging on about it, if you go right back to the beginning. And it's interesting that he definitely remembers that. He always nods to bookshops, which is great as well.
JR: I think timing is always a really important thing when it comes to bookshops too. Especially when you're just setting up or if you've been open for a little while. To have something like One Day launch when you're just getting up off your feet, that can be an extra day's worth, or even a week’s worth, of takings just with that one book.
NB: Yeah. I mean, we opened our bookshop in 2006. And that was not a trendy time to be opening bookshops, which is why we got so heavily involved with trade things, you know, the Booksellers Association, quite early, because we were very unusual. There'd been a real period of attrition whilst Waterstones expanded and swallowed up some other entities.
But also, it was just at the moment where the battle lines within this very collaborative industry were being redrawn, and not just Waterstones versus independents anymore, but about Amazon versus everything else. And so that was the time we started. There weren't that many who started around then.
But in the period before, there were plenty of people, some of the great bookshops that still exist on high streets now that are run by former Waterstones people who decided to jump ship during that expansion phase and bring their knowledge into creating new bookshops. And I guess a lot of them were opening their bookshops right when the Harry Potter books were launching. And I mean, there'll be some of them with some great stories, I'm sure about their first year being saved by the sixth Harry Potter or whatever. The seventh Harry Potter hardback was released 10 months or 11 months after we opened, we had a party for it. We were still new, we were known by our local community but we hadn't got any of this reputation. But we still sold 160 hardbacks, I guess, at full price. And we put on a party at midnight and we had a lot of fun with it. And so yeah, I can imagine that the earlier ones were huge for bookshops.
JR: Also a love of publishing and authors too. You don't want that [local] author to exist solely in Bath, you know, you want them to make a living.
NB: Yeah, yeah. You want good things for that writer. and good things for and that kind of crops that you know, and then sometimes, you know, there's a there is also a kind of if we were looking at it from a kind of business point of view, you do end up getting these moments when particular bookshops get associated with the word-of-mouth building up of an author, you know. I hold my hands up and say sometimes we've been attributed, I think unduly sometimes. Like being sold in a book by a sales rep from a publisher, because we're associated with the initial buzz about the first novel by that same author. And I'm a bit like, ‘I don't actually remember.’
I don't remember whether we were truly that influential. We definitely stocked it, definitely sold some, and we definitely liked it. But there is this mythology. And I assume that therefore happens with every bookshop. There's a slight mythologising but it's because people remember passionate moments and publishers notice it and customers notice it.
And it's one of the great joys of a bookshop being an early supporter of something that then goes on to have a great reputation because lots of readers love it.
JR: Yeah, absolutely.
NB: David Nichols is touring right now and we're going to be interviewing him on Saturday.
And I think One Day came out in paperback really close to when we opened the shop. So that obviously did very well from the outset. And it's just a great example of one way bookshops, and not taking so much credit for us because we were just at the very beginning, but loads and loads of bookshops were sort of helping spread that because the first readers who read it were really struck by that book. And obviously, it became a phenomenon. It sold millions, [it was] adapted, you know. But it began with lots of bookshops banging on about it, if you go right back to the beginning. And it's interesting that he definitely remembers that. He always nods to bookshops, which is great as well.
JR: I think timing is always a really important thing when it comes to bookshops too. Especially when you're just setting up or if you've been open for a little while. To have something like One Day launch when you're just getting up off your feet, that can be an extra day's worth, or even a week’s worth, of takings just with that one book.
NB: Yeah. I mean, we opened our bookshop in 2006. And that was not a trendy time to be opening bookshops, which is why we got so heavily involved with trade things, you know, the Booksellers Association, quite early, because we were very unusual. There'd been a real period of attrition whilst Waterstones expanded and swallowed up some other entities.
But also, it was just at the moment where the battle lines within this very collaborative industry were being redrawn, and not just Waterstones versus independents anymore, but about Amazon versus everything else. And so that was the time we started. There weren't that many who started around then.
But in the period before, there were plenty of people, some of the great bookshops that still exist on high streets now that are run by former Waterstones people who decided to jump ship during that expansion phase and bring their knowledge into creating new bookshops. And I guess a lot of them were opening their bookshops right when the Harry Potter books were launching. And I mean, there'll be some of them with some great stories, I'm sure about their first year being saved by the sixth Harry Potter or whatever. The seventh Harry Potter hardback was released 10 months or 11 months after we opened, we had a party for it. We were still new, we were known by our local community but we hadn't got any of this reputation. But we still sold 160 hardbacks, I guess, at full price. And we put on a party at midnight and we had a lot of fun with it. And so yeah, I can imagine that the earlier ones were huge for bookshops.
JR: There are books like that that keep the lights on, you know, especially during or coming out of the pandemic. There are certain books that have come out in the last five years that have saved smaller bookshops.
NB: What are you thinking? JR: Well, I'm just thinking, and I guess it kind of comes down to your local authors again, but we've been incredibly fortunate with Ann Cleeves up north, you know, during one of the lockdowns, The Darkest Evening came out. NB: Yeah, right. JR: You know, we had our doors shut at that point, we literally couldn't let any customers through the door. And our website, it was such a kind of fledgling thing, prior to those lockdowns we just had a holding page that pretty much said, ‘Come on in.’ NB: Yeah. |
JR: You know, ‘We can offer so much more in person than we can on a website.’ Who needs a website? And then obviously, we got into this pandemic. So we had to throw something up quickly overnight.
NB: And so many people did that really effectively. It was impressive how people did that quickly.
JR: And then you've got books where you've got the support of your community, you've got the support of maybe a big name author - it doesn't have to be a big name author, but books like that - if you're selling a hundred plus, I mean, for that particular one, I think it was a four-figure quantity for us, or thereabouts.
NB: It's incredible.
JR: Yeah. And that is the kind of thing that during lockdown was like a week's takings, if not more.
NB: I mean, a four-figure quantity of a book for an independent bookshop is so impressive and figuring you haven't got an enormous event, it takes a lot of time to do that.
It's funny, actually, in the pandemic time, I would say that the book that was the biggest for us, most important for us, was also an author from your part of the world, which was Ben Myers, The Offing.
JR: Yeah. Yeah.
NB: We were from day one super fan of his writing and then this book came out called The Offing. And for anyone who hasn't read it, we would kind of categorise his early books as hedgerow noir. But this one is more like a tonic. He's a writer who writes, and is capable of writing, about some fairly dark characters and some dark places. This much more optimistic and upbeat and tonic-like book never drifts near naff, you know, it's still got its sort of beating heart of trouble beneath the surface.
But at the end of the day, it's a book about a man walking down the Northumbrian coast in a time of recovery, 1946, but also fearing for his future, which is likely to be spent down the mines and wondering what else life could look like, and forming an unlikely friendship with an older lady and looking at her past and his future. It's so quiet. It's so warm. So brilliant. And we just sort of ended up realising that - I mean, it came out at just a terrible time for Ben and [for] book sales initially, I'm sure - but it was one of the ones that still got some oxygen because it fitted the mood of the country. You'll know, everyone was asking for books that were escapist, and that can mean anything, that can mean reading about another pandemic, but the majority we found wanted something that was not relentlessly depressing.
JR: And it was that little gem of hope, wasn't it? I think Ben's writing can be deceptively simple in some cases, but I think the message is always very strong.
NB: Yeah, exactly.
JR: And this was one of the first that was, I think, similarly, I suppose to The Perfect Golden Circle in that way.
NB: Yeah. Yeah. I think it feels like that’s the other one that pairs up well in terms of that side of his writing.
JR: But then you've got something like Cuddy that comes out next, and I'm just like, where did that come from?
NB: Yeah, I'm so excited for him. I did a YouTube interview with him during the pandemic, because you know, we did that thing. And he was great, he was sat in a room with loads of books. And a lot of the interview was him wheeling away from the camera and grabbing another book out and just talking about the books. But I talked about this, and I'm sure he's done loads of interviews talking about The Offing and the tone or shift, and he just said, ‘Yeah, I needed something for myself.’
NB: And so many people did that really effectively. It was impressive how people did that quickly.
JR: And then you've got books where you've got the support of your community, you've got the support of maybe a big name author - it doesn't have to be a big name author, but books like that - if you're selling a hundred plus, I mean, for that particular one, I think it was a four-figure quantity for us, or thereabouts.
NB: It's incredible.
JR: Yeah. And that is the kind of thing that during lockdown was like a week's takings, if not more.
NB: I mean, a four-figure quantity of a book for an independent bookshop is so impressive and figuring you haven't got an enormous event, it takes a lot of time to do that.
It's funny, actually, in the pandemic time, I would say that the book that was the biggest for us, most important for us, was also an author from your part of the world, which was Ben Myers, The Offing.
JR: Yeah. Yeah.
NB: We were from day one super fan of his writing and then this book came out called The Offing. And for anyone who hasn't read it, we would kind of categorise his early books as hedgerow noir. But this one is more like a tonic. He's a writer who writes, and is capable of writing, about some fairly dark characters and some dark places. This much more optimistic and upbeat and tonic-like book never drifts near naff, you know, it's still got its sort of beating heart of trouble beneath the surface.
But at the end of the day, it's a book about a man walking down the Northumbrian coast in a time of recovery, 1946, but also fearing for his future, which is likely to be spent down the mines and wondering what else life could look like, and forming an unlikely friendship with an older lady and looking at her past and his future. It's so quiet. It's so warm. So brilliant. And we just sort of ended up realising that - I mean, it came out at just a terrible time for Ben and [for] book sales initially, I'm sure - but it was one of the ones that still got some oxygen because it fitted the mood of the country. You'll know, everyone was asking for books that were escapist, and that can mean anything, that can mean reading about another pandemic, but the majority we found wanted something that was not relentlessly depressing.
JR: And it was that little gem of hope, wasn't it? I think Ben's writing can be deceptively simple in some cases, but I think the message is always very strong.
NB: Yeah, exactly.
JR: And this was one of the first that was, I think, similarly, I suppose to The Perfect Golden Circle in that way.
NB: Yeah. Yeah. I think it feels like that’s the other one that pairs up well in terms of that side of his writing.
JR: But then you've got something like Cuddy that comes out next, and I'm just like, where did that come from?
NB: Yeah, I'm so excited for him. I did a YouTube interview with him during the pandemic, because you know, we did that thing. And he was great, he was sat in a room with loads of books. And a lot of the interview was him wheeling away from the camera and grabbing another book out and just talking about the books. But I talked about this, and I'm sure he's done loads of interviews talking about The Offing and the tone or shift, and he just said, ‘Yeah, I needed something for myself.’
JR: While we're on the subject of events, let's talk about your event programme. You mentioned David Nichols, but you've also got Sarah Perry, Olivia Laing, you've got Cressida Cowell coming up. Such an amazing list. How do your events work for you typically? Do you do some in-store? Are you able to use external venues? What kind of audiences are we looking at?
NB: So, yeah, we do in-store. We can hold 42 people if we squeeze everyone in and open the door at the other side to make sure there's room everywhere. If it's an old-school bookstore event with 42 people, it's crammed in. But I love it. I absolutely love it! We had that Friday night for the economist, psychologist, and business speaker, Jenny Kleeman. And that was great. Absolutely packed. JR: Brilliant. NB: It's great because that’s a great size and space. If you've got a debut novelist, you know, no one else necessarily knows them yet but you have that core audience who trust you if you're saying, ‘Hey, here's someone, come see them.’ So that's our kind of base, then we use different venues around the town, we use a couple, but in Bath, venues tend to be quite austere, the external ones, because they're big buildings. And they also can be extremely, prohibitively expensive to hire if you're talking about it from the economic side of running an event. And I talk about that sometimes with the Booksellers Association, I've done some talks on the economics of book events. But there are some great ones, we've got a couple of churches that we like to use that are the slightly lighter area ones that have that have better sound because some of them can get a bit of echoey. I don't tend to use some of the huge stone churches here because there are not always the best sight lines, either. But we've got a couple of churches, we use one that's where we're [hosting] David Nichols, Amor Towles, Leigh Bardugo, are all coming up, they're all kind of sold out events or nearly sold out. But that one church, which is the church where - I'm going to get this wrong - I think Jane Austen's father is buried in… So it's a great kind of structure. We had a great event there, a couple of years ago, with Hanya Yanagihara as well. |
And that holds 280 people, something like that. So we use that. The other place we love using is a place called Walcot House, which has this downstairs kind of speakeasy vibe. You can cram like 90 people in there. You can also not cram 50 or 60. So if it's just a bit big for the store, as a bar they open up, with some little red candles. I love interviewing in that space as well.
And so often, if, you know, if it's at a time when we've got a lot of events because this city has a lot of events, we put on a lot, Robert Topping and his team put on loads, Waterstones put on events, then we support events put on by, you know, there's the festival, there's a new group called Bath Arts Collective, who are brilliant, there's the Theatre Royal, the Literary Institute, we're selling for other people all the time.
And so if you've got a time when you've got a lot going on, and we think we want just under 100 people, that's when we use Walcot House, especially in the winter. It's fantastic. I had a few weeks where I interviewed, like Lauren Groth, Sebastian Faulks, Louis de Bernières, we had this kind of '90s retro vibe, and suddenly, we had all these great, great authors of the '90s. Who’s still writing well, but there's a whole little run in the autumn, where we were in that building an awful lot. And so I like that, you know, you need a space, when we use an external space, I do want it to feel like it somehow has a synergy with Mr. B's.
That's why with some of the huge churches it's difficult to achieve that. And of course, occasionally, like a few years ago, just before the pandemic, we hosted Caitlin Moran at the Forum with 1200 people. It didn't really feel like Mr. B’s, but I mean, ultimately, if you can get 1200 people in front of someone who they absolutely adore, I stopped caring so much about that and just made sure we made it happen.
JR: Yeah, make sure it works.
NB: Yeah!
JR: I know you’ve mentioned Toppings and Waterstones, but Bath is very much more than a bookshop town, really. It's a lot larger than that, but it's got such good bookshop credentials doesn't it?
NB: Yeah, yeah, it definitely does.
JR: People make a pilgrimage to you for their bookshops now, don't they?
NB: I think they do. And I think it works really well for all the bookshops here. I hope it does. Definitely does for us. You see it a lot on, you know if I was to estimate, and there's no way I would ever bother doing this, to be honest, but if I were to estimate the percentage of our footfall that is now made up of visitors to the city versus originally, it's a much higher percentage, obviously.
Not that the locals have stopped coming to us, just that there's this big upside because Bath has so many visitors. And in 2024, it's a lot easier for those visitors to find out, you know, there are infinite people, Instagramming, blogging, everything about their experience going to the city and visiting the shop. So yeah, you have us, you have Toppings, and the two stores are both excellent, but have quite a different vibe. So we end up with some people in the city definitely shop more at one or the other and then plenty shop at both depending on their mood. Visitors will come to both and get a different experience from each.
And then we have Persephone as well, the small publishing company who moved from Lamb’s Conduit Street in London and now have a store here in Bath, and also their office because they're primarily a subscription-oriented business really, but they have a cute shop selling mainly their own books or almost all their own books.
And then at Waterstones, it's really strong Waterstones branch, we've always had a great relationship with. I remember, we opened the doors to our shop and about two weeks later, this older couple who've been in several times and been very supportive, literally from day one made sure they bought books and ordered books from us straightaway. They had this very frank and concerned conversation with us on the step as if we'd not noticed that Waterstones was just around the corner.
And when people can't find something at Waterstones, Waterstones send them to us.
And if someone visiting town isn't aware that Waterstones is there and has dropped into us and we don't have it, we can send them right around the corner. That close neighbour thing works really well. I think maybe in a city more than in a tiny town, I don't know.
And so often, if, you know, if it's at a time when we've got a lot of events because this city has a lot of events, we put on a lot, Robert Topping and his team put on loads, Waterstones put on events, then we support events put on by, you know, there's the festival, there's a new group called Bath Arts Collective, who are brilliant, there's the Theatre Royal, the Literary Institute, we're selling for other people all the time.
And so if you've got a time when you've got a lot going on, and we think we want just under 100 people, that's when we use Walcot House, especially in the winter. It's fantastic. I had a few weeks where I interviewed, like Lauren Groth, Sebastian Faulks, Louis de Bernières, we had this kind of '90s retro vibe, and suddenly, we had all these great, great authors of the '90s. Who’s still writing well, but there's a whole little run in the autumn, where we were in that building an awful lot. And so I like that, you know, you need a space, when we use an external space, I do want it to feel like it somehow has a synergy with Mr. B's.
That's why with some of the huge churches it's difficult to achieve that. And of course, occasionally, like a few years ago, just before the pandemic, we hosted Caitlin Moran at the Forum with 1200 people. It didn't really feel like Mr. B’s, but I mean, ultimately, if you can get 1200 people in front of someone who they absolutely adore, I stopped caring so much about that and just made sure we made it happen.
JR: Yeah, make sure it works.
NB: Yeah!
JR: I know you’ve mentioned Toppings and Waterstones, but Bath is very much more than a bookshop town, really. It's a lot larger than that, but it's got such good bookshop credentials doesn't it?
NB: Yeah, yeah, it definitely does.
JR: People make a pilgrimage to you for their bookshops now, don't they?
NB: I think they do. And I think it works really well for all the bookshops here. I hope it does. Definitely does for us. You see it a lot on, you know if I was to estimate, and there's no way I would ever bother doing this, to be honest, but if I were to estimate the percentage of our footfall that is now made up of visitors to the city versus originally, it's a much higher percentage, obviously.
Not that the locals have stopped coming to us, just that there's this big upside because Bath has so many visitors. And in 2024, it's a lot easier for those visitors to find out, you know, there are infinite people, Instagramming, blogging, everything about their experience going to the city and visiting the shop. So yeah, you have us, you have Toppings, and the two stores are both excellent, but have quite a different vibe. So we end up with some people in the city definitely shop more at one or the other and then plenty shop at both depending on their mood. Visitors will come to both and get a different experience from each.
And then we have Persephone as well, the small publishing company who moved from Lamb’s Conduit Street in London and now have a store here in Bath, and also their office because they're primarily a subscription-oriented business really, but they have a cute shop selling mainly their own books or almost all their own books.
And then at Waterstones, it's really strong Waterstones branch, we've always had a great relationship with. I remember, we opened the doors to our shop and about two weeks later, this older couple who've been in several times and been very supportive, literally from day one made sure they bought books and ordered books from us straightaway. They had this very frank and concerned conversation with us on the step as if we'd not noticed that Waterstones was just around the corner.
And when people can't find something at Waterstones, Waterstones send them to us.
And if someone visiting town isn't aware that Waterstones is there and has dropped into us and we don't have it, we can send them right around the corner. That close neighbour thing works really well. I think maybe in a city more than in a tiny town, I don't know.
And then we have some really good small bookshops as well. So Larkhall has a little independent bookshop [The Beaufort Bookshop]. Larkhall's a little neighbourhood on the edge of the city to the east. And then there is a bookshop called Oldfield Park Bookshop on Moreland Road, set up before we opened by a former regional manager of Waterstones who was such a generous friend to our shop in the early days.
For example, it came at a time when he was really trying to step down from how much schools business he did because it wasn't what he was trying to achieve with his business. And he passed on a lot of those school clients to us early on because he really didn't want to be doing that. But on a personal level, he was great, he gave me various little bits of advice and tidbits from his experience and was so welcoming to us in the city, a guy called Harry Wainwright. And he runs his brilliant neighbourhood bookshop and always has done. Plus there are a lot of other things that book fans might want to go and see, there's a House of Frankenstein experience, there's the Jane Austen Museum, you know, et cetera. JR: Yeah, there are obviously more things to draw book lovers in. But that community is really important. And I think that is quite a unique book industry phenomenon, where I feel like competing big businesses are in a position where they can support each other. It seems to be quite unique to booksellers. Then, look at other big book events, like the Bath Literary Festival. You were supporting BLF early on, weren't you? I think, was it from 2009 to 2013? NB: Yeah, we were booksellers for the festival from 2009 to ‘13 or ‘14. We weren't their bookseller then for a five-year period and then we were again in 2019. The reasons why we stepped away from that are just to do with, to be honest, with the arts organisations that have their own series of needs and difficulties with funding and things like that, and it was at a moment for them where they needed an increase in marketing funding and what have you, which certainly we were not able to provide. Because those festivals are very good for turnover, they're very good for market building, they're not always the best for profit. So there isn't a huge amount of cash in them necessarily if you're going to start needing to spend more money in order to take on a role or have to provide more sponsorship. |
So at that time we kind of stepped away from it for a little while but yeah, all those things. Honestly, I think we've already sold books at around 50 events that were organised by other people this year. And actually, that 50 probably includes ones where we organise them at schools, which is another part of it. But you know, there are all sorts of organisations, we've collaborated with the Theatre Royal on their lunchtime event series for more than 16 years. There are so many things.
I’m really interested in the thing you said about, I mean, I know it kind of referenced something I mentioned earlier about this whole thing of how collaborative the book industry is, it really is, but I can give you two quick stories.
One is that when a particular, I think I'm going back to JK Rowling again, for some reason, I think it was the first Robert Galbraith or second Robert, it must have been when the second Robert Galbraith came out. And the warehouse door, the goods in the door of Waterstones is opposite our shop. It's not a public entry. And the guy who runs their back office, looked out at our window that morning, and was like, ‘How come you have no Robert Galbraith in your window?’ And it had been a whole thing. There was a problem, an error had been made with the account of the publisher, which meant that any title that you've ordered more than two months ahead of the publication date just dropped off. They changed a setting on the account, basically. So we'd already realised this because they'd not arrived the day before. And for anyone who's not inside or into bookselling, they always come in black plastic, you're not allowed to open it ‘till midnight on the day of release for these big, big releases.
JR: Yeah, yeah. On pain of death!
NB: Exactly. So, they haven't arrived yet, and we had some pre-orders. And obviously, it's one of those books, like a Robert Galbraith, you know, hardback is one of those books that actually, the chain bookshops are still going to get the bigger market share than an indie, and they might be discounting it very heavily in a way that an indie shop can't, but any sales you are going to get are probably going to be within the first week of publication, for sure.
So we really wanted to have some. So we said to the guy at Waterstones, ‘Yeah, they're coming tomorrow. They messed it up. They’re sorting it out.’ And he just straight away lent us a pack of 10 copies of the book and said, ‘Well just give me yours tomorrow.’ You know, there was no need to do that. You know, it was probably a faff for him on his stock control system, you know, so great. We were able to honour our customer orders and have five or six copies on the shop floor, which we definitely sold. So, that's one example.
And the other thing as just an example of how it doesn't relate to other industries, we had a chap come speak at the Booksellers Association conference, maybe five years ago. And I actually interviewed him, which is always a weird one doing an author interview in front of an audience of people who spend all their lives doing author interviews -
JR: - yeah, no pressure!
NB: Yeah, it's always a unique challenge, I think. Mind you, he'd written a book about the future of retail. And I'd read it, it was a business book, and I'd read this book through, it was quite a business-oriented book as well. And essentially, one of his hypotheses in the book was, ‘You want to get rid of or slash your staffing costs, otherwise, you won't survive on the high street’, slash your staffing costs, get screens. People need to be coming in, picking the book they want, and then be able to do a bit of browsing and have it handed to them at the counter.
JR: The Argos model.
NB: Right. So I said to him, in the five minutes I had before we went on stage, I said, ‘I'm going to interview you on the book. I'm really interested in a lot of the things you said, a lot of the things you said were really smart and sensible.’
‘But’, I said, ‘if I let you say this on stage, you literally might not make it out of the room!’ ‘I fundamentally disagree with this point. And I think that I'll do it in a more mild way than some of the people I know very well in this audience. So please allow me to navigate you. I am going to challenge you on it.’
And we had a really great conversation. He was a really great interviewee. He kind of defended his point, but could tell that that was not the consensus. Anyway, then he stuck around and went to the dinner, and then went drinking in the bar, which is an extensive thing, as you know, at these conferences. He was still at the bar at like 2 am. I saw him at breakfast the next morning and he was blown away. He advises big retail and has worked in all kinds of business agencies.
‘I have never been in a bar at an industry conference that's like this’, he said. ‘You're all openly sharing ideas. You're all openly talking to one another about what you think is a priority. Your people are coming with questions that they have that is a problem in their business, and over a pint, you're sitting there talking about it.’
‘You're all thinking about a customer experience in a way that is completely the opposite of what I believe to be the trend.’
And his next book was all about how it's possible to do things by bucking the trends. So, it's funny, that's what I mean when you see outsiders come into our industry. It's when you see how unusual that is for people who spend a lot of time hopping industries that you realise how special it is.
I’m really interested in the thing you said about, I mean, I know it kind of referenced something I mentioned earlier about this whole thing of how collaborative the book industry is, it really is, but I can give you two quick stories.
One is that when a particular, I think I'm going back to JK Rowling again, for some reason, I think it was the first Robert Galbraith or second Robert, it must have been when the second Robert Galbraith came out. And the warehouse door, the goods in the door of Waterstones is opposite our shop. It's not a public entry. And the guy who runs their back office, looked out at our window that morning, and was like, ‘How come you have no Robert Galbraith in your window?’ And it had been a whole thing. There was a problem, an error had been made with the account of the publisher, which meant that any title that you've ordered more than two months ahead of the publication date just dropped off. They changed a setting on the account, basically. So we'd already realised this because they'd not arrived the day before. And for anyone who's not inside or into bookselling, they always come in black plastic, you're not allowed to open it ‘till midnight on the day of release for these big, big releases.
JR: Yeah, yeah. On pain of death!
NB: Exactly. So, they haven't arrived yet, and we had some pre-orders. And obviously, it's one of those books, like a Robert Galbraith, you know, hardback is one of those books that actually, the chain bookshops are still going to get the bigger market share than an indie, and they might be discounting it very heavily in a way that an indie shop can't, but any sales you are going to get are probably going to be within the first week of publication, for sure.
So we really wanted to have some. So we said to the guy at Waterstones, ‘Yeah, they're coming tomorrow. They messed it up. They’re sorting it out.’ And he just straight away lent us a pack of 10 copies of the book and said, ‘Well just give me yours tomorrow.’ You know, there was no need to do that. You know, it was probably a faff for him on his stock control system, you know, so great. We were able to honour our customer orders and have five or six copies on the shop floor, which we definitely sold. So, that's one example.
And the other thing as just an example of how it doesn't relate to other industries, we had a chap come speak at the Booksellers Association conference, maybe five years ago. And I actually interviewed him, which is always a weird one doing an author interview in front of an audience of people who spend all their lives doing author interviews -
JR: - yeah, no pressure!
NB: Yeah, it's always a unique challenge, I think. Mind you, he'd written a book about the future of retail. And I'd read it, it was a business book, and I'd read this book through, it was quite a business-oriented book as well. And essentially, one of his hypotheses in the book was, ‘You want to get rid of or slash your staffing costs, otherwise, you won't survive on the high street’, slash your staffing costs, get screens. People need to be coming in, picking the book they want, and then be able to do a bit of browsing and have it handed to them at the counter.
JR: The Argos model.
NB: Right. So I said to him, in the five minutes I had before we went on stage, I said, ‘I'm going to interview you on the book. I'm really interested in a lot of the things you said, a lot of the things you said were really smart and sensible.’
‘But’, I said, ‘if I let you say this on stage, you literally might not make it out of the room!’ ‘I fundamentally disagree with this point. And I think that I'll do it in a more mild way than some of the people I know very well in this audience. So please allow me to navigate you. I am going to challenge you on it.’
And we had a really great conversation. He was a really great interviewee. He kind of defended his point, but could tell that that was not the consensus. Anyway, then he stuck around and went to the dinner, and then went drinking in the bar, which is an extensive thing, as you know, at these conferences. He was still at the bar at like 2 am. I saw him at breakfast the next morning and he was blown away. He advises big retail and has worked in all kinds of business agencies.
‘I have never been in a bar at an industry conference that's like this’, he said. ‘You're all openly sharing ideas. You're all openly talking to one another about what you think is a priority. Your people are coming with questions that they have that is a problem in their business, and over a pint, you're sitting there talking about it.’
‘You're all thinking about a customer experience in a way that is completely the opposite of what I believe to be the trend.’
And his next book was all about how it's possible to do things by bucking the trends. So, it's funny, that's what I mean when you see outsiders come into our industry. It's when you see how unusual that is for people who spend a lot of time hopping industries that you realise how special it is.